Brannon Howse: We're going to be joined here in just a second by Joe Allen. Don't forget, folks, we're brought to you by you if you need sheets, towels, blankets, pet beds, slippers, sandals, mattresses, mattress toppers, or robes, will you please go to Mypillow.com? And will you please use the promo code? B66, you'll get savings and we get credit. A generous percentage of each purchase comes back to keep this program going. And it takes a lot of us put this show together just by 30-minute nightly news show. It takes a team of seven of us 15 man hours a day, put it together. So please, there are lots of reasons to buy gifts. Mother's Day, Father's Day, graduation gifts, wedding gifts, housewarming gifts. So you can find a lot of things. There's a Giza dream sheet. The luxurious Giza dream sheets are now on sale at Mypillow.com. Big sale over there. There's also a big sale on slippers, slides, and sandals at Mypillow.com. So please check it all out. There are mattress toppers, three-inch mattress toppers, and more. All of it is available for you at mypillow.com, but please use that promo code B66 so you'll get savings. We get credit and we can keep this program and everybody that well is on staff keep it produced and going. They will remain here and help us produce it. Joining me now is Joe Allen. Joe, welcome back to the broadcast. Thanks for joining us.

Joe Allen: Thank you very much, Brannon. Good to be here.

Brannon Howse: You, too. Glad to have you with us. Hey, you're friends with Patrick Wood. We're talking about the Club of Rome. He's been doing this for 45 years. What are your thoughts about the genesis of the Club of Rome, MIT, 1972? We've got to limit growth. We just played a video of a guy that he gave he was making the comment back in 2017 and he his name was Dennis Meadows. I'm sure you're familiar with him. He said that at the time the Earth was about 7 billion. We need to get it down to a billion. Now we're at 8 billion. So he said we have to do it kind of slowly and fairly. It's got to be equal. And so what are your thoughts on how the Club of Rome or East Strong, who was a part of that, who ends up working with the Rockefellers and at the UN and goes on to help us with, you know, help put out the United Nations agenda of Agenda 21, Agenda 2030. And of course, we know that Klaus Schwab, I think, was mentored by some of these same people, including Henry Kissinger. According to The New York Post, Henry Kissinger mentored Klaus Schwab. Henry Kissinger had his report in 1974 that was finally declassified in about 1989 that was calling for abortion on demand, using food to get third world countries to do vaccines on demand and abortion, on-demand, and forced sterilization. I mean, a lot of these guys run in the same circles where they are committed. They are unlike the right. They know what they believe. They know why they believe it, and they're committed to a multi, multi decades agenda. Do you want to comment on all that?

Joe Allen: Well, you know, I am not nearly as learned in topics such as the Club of Rome as Patrick would, though I've learned a lot from him on it and others. You know, a really important article, I think is Schwab Family Values from Gianni Vidmar really digs deep into Klaus Schwab's connections to Henry Kissinger, the connections, the connections to Harvard. But, you know, the theory, right? The theory you're talking about there are too many human beings. You have to reduce human beings in order for whatever survives to survive. Right. That idea, obviously, the calculations were way off as to how many people would be on the planet and also how many people are, you know, sustainable by the planet. That being said, I think that it's a tough balance to strike between accusing these people of wanting to destroy some, you know, 9/10 or 5/6 of the planet and acknowledging that their programs that this sort of the slow rolling genocide in their programs are actually coming to through to fruition. For instance, as you mentioned, the abortion programs and the birth control programs that are being rolled out across the world. Very effective, obviously, in Western countries because in Western countries and in Asian countries, you have below replacement populations. But, you know, in the southern hemisphere, these didn't take as well. They still now you see in any of the population projections that the southern hemisphere is continuing to, you know, produce far more people than the northern hemisphere. All this is to say that there is there's a bizarre sort of disconnect between the kind of worldview that guys like Klaus Schwab or those coming out of the Club of Rome or, say, Paul Ehrlich, who wrote the Population Bomb, They kind of toed the line on these kinds of, you know, anti-white sort of points of view while at the same time, they they they cast a blind eye, by and large, to the fact that, you know, the majority of population growth on earth is happening in the southern hemisphere.

Joe Allen: Now, the question that I think that anyone should ask in general, whether it's your neighborhood, your city, your nation, or the globe, is how many people are too many people? So if every human being on earth paired off with the opposite sex and every human being on earth had, say, 7 or 8 children and modern medicine allowed all 7 or 8 children to survive, well, how long would it be before you got to too many people? So think that again, going back to that idea is a kind of hard balance to strike. Where do you have a cut-off point? Because unless you believe that the earth will continue to go on for, you know, only say ten, 20, 30 years or at least a couple of generations, it has to be accounted for, that possibly we could get overcrowded. The entire argument against mass immigration is that too many people will degrade a society. So how many people are too many people? And if you don't take responsibility for those sorts of questions, then people like those that kinds of technocratic elite at the World Economic Forum, they're highly influenced and come out of the Club of Rome. They're going to be making those decisions for you.

Joe Allen: So it's maybe not the answer that many people would want to hear, but think that the sort of calculating tendency of technocrats in the globalist elite is misguided, not only in their calculations but also misguided on a moral level, especially in regards to those of us just below them and the sort of social pecking order many of them am have no doubt would like to see us done away with or at least reduced in population. Right? Yeah. But ultimately, if we just if there's just a kind of knee-jerk reaction against these arguments, against the arguments that maybe there is a certain cap to the number of people that any given society or perhaps the entire planet could sustain, then if we aren't making those decisions ourselves, if we aren't contemplating this seriously ourselves, they will be doing it for us. I think that's a really, really important point. And if I could just add one thing, Brandon, before I turn it over, you see the same sort of thing right now with this argument about artificial intelligence and the existential risk that it has. Poses to humanity. So right now, that conversation is by and large being had by industry insiders, who I'm actually grateful for are coming forward and saying that the work they're doing is dangerous to all of humanity. These are people like Geoffrey Hinton, who just quit Google in order to warn about the dangers of artificial intelligence, or Paul Christiano, who developed the interface that sort of trains the AI by way of human beings at OpenAI. Paul Christiano is making very similar arguments that AI poses a real threat to human beings.

Joe Allen: Now, the response naturally, is going to be for the government to crack down anywhere they can and take as much power as they can, including away from people like us to communicate online and so on and so forth, with the justification that we have to keep either artificial intelligence under control or perhaps the runaway cryptocurrency. There's legislation moving forward on that or even something like TikTok, right? You see that with the Restrict Act and the Data Act that the government is using these sorts of dangers, they are controlling the conversation around these dangers. I think that the important thing is that people on the right, populists, and just in general, working-class or middle-class people have to wrap their heads around this. They have to figure out how to exert their interests in these conversations and also to exert their freedoms or to insist on their freedoms in the face of government responses because it becomes very, very complicated if you have a threat to all humanity such as nuclear war or artificial intelligence or runaway population, then that gives government to assert certain abuses against the population as a whole. And so I think that the best path forward, at least in my opinion, is to do exactly what you're doing, educate people on these issues. Steve Bannon obviously has done everything he can to educate people on these issues in order for the populace itself to be able to voice their opinions and assert their will in the process of keeping these problems under control.

Brannon Howse: Yeah. Yeah. Very, very interesting. I want to play a video because you said something there. It's very interesting to me that I said on my show today, these guys seem to be warning about the dangers of AI. And the people warning about it have been the people promoting it. You know, Elon Musk wants to do Neuralink and all that. And then you've got Noah Harari, you know, talking about it's not going to be the god above the clouds, but the God in the clouds and we'll know what you're thinking. And then we're going to hack DNA and all this crazy stuff these people have been saying and promoting the idea of artificial intelligence. And then all of a sudden they come around and say, oh, wow, this could be so dangerous. And what I said on my radio show today was, uh, it sounds like to me what they're wanting to do is scare people into believing that they should have control of all the AI. And I think that's what you're saying.

Joe Allen: And I think there's a definite possibility. I mean, obviously, just after Musk signed the Open Letter from the Future of Life Institute. I'm sorry. The future of. Yeah. Future of Life Institute. It's easy to confuse it with the Future of Humanity Institute, also funded by Musk. He signed that open letter, and then not long after, announced the foundation of the X Corporation and EXI. Right. His own foray into the artificial intelligence industry. A lot of people think that the entire open letter was a facade, as you're saying, sort of as you're suggesting that it's a facade in order to scare the public so that they can take control. I think it's messier than that. I don't know Elon Musk's heart. I don't know. Yuval Noah Harari. His heart. I know their statements very, very well and I know their actions as well as one can from our perspective. What I see are people who dream of creating a God-like AI, an artificial general intelligence, right? That fuses together all of these different narrow programs into a superhuman, godlike artificial intelligence system. They want that. But for a long time, the conversation happening underneath those goals has been about artificial intelligence alignment. How do you create a being more intelligent than human beings and still keep it under control? Because right now, one of the things that has really startled people is that GPT technology really isn't controllable. You can put woke safety layers over the top of it to make sure that it only says statements. But basically, you're putting a gag on a giant. And, you know, the fear that they have is that that giant could get loose. And I don't think that that fear is insincere.

Joe Allen: And I don't think that the fear is necessarily unfounded. It doesn't have to actually be what they dream for it to be. It only has to be out of their control in the same way that geopolitical scenarios could lead to nuclear war and therefore be, in essence, out of our leader's control. You could have an artificial intelligence system that exhibits all of these sorts of novel cognitive traits and evades the control of its creators. It doesn't have to actually be godlike, but it can be profoundly destructive. And I think that they are, by and large, sincere in that. At the same time, they definitely want to maintain control over it. They want to be the ones who create it and they want to be the ones who harness it. That desire goes from the federal government in regulating artificial intelligence. And of course, it goes over to Google or Meta or OpenAI slash Microsoft. All of them want to be first and all of them want to be the ones who create a God on Earth. Now it leaves us people who are traditional people who are religious, people who by and large believe in populism and the will of the people. It leaves us in a very, very strange situation because if you implement a system where you have artificial intelligence that is referred to as if it were God-like, even if it's not smarter than human beings, that now becomes the de facto ruler over the people. And if you have a situation where you have an AI that is profoundly dangerous to us because it's spreading misinformation to sow dissent and sow discord, or because it's gotten control of a weapon system or shut down the power of an entire city or whatever the scenario may be.

Joe Allen: If you have a system like that in place, clearly we're the ones who are going to bear the majority of the burden of that damage. And so to me, I think it's in our interests to do everything possible to throw sand into the gears of this machine, to slow down the development of these sorts of technologies, and especially to reduce the belief to basically either mock it out of existence or argue it out of existence, or simply refuse to kowtow to the belief that an artificial intelligence system will actually possess wisdom and intelligence beyond human beings, and especially beyond the God and the spirits above human beings. And so I guess in short, Brandon, what I'm saying is. We are in a sort of religious war, but the landscape is very confusing. It's very murky. It would be really easy to say Elon Musk is evil or Yuval Noah Harari is evil. But I think it's far more complicated than that. These are complicated human beings who have their interests and we have our interests. And of course, the divine powers above us have their interests right, that have been declared in various ways to us. And so working all of that out is not it's certainly not up to me to do it. I am not a solutions man, but I do think that a clear understanding of the problem and having people who can articulate that problem coming from our side is going to be very important to make sure that we are not steamrolled by this technological revolution. And yet and.

Brannon Howse: I got two minutes, but and yet how many pastors do you think in America are talking about transhumanism and technocracy? I bet you have a hard time finding 100.

Joe Allen: It's 100, I think would probably be pretty, pretty hard. You know, the Eastern Orthodox Church has been very, very consistent in its criticism of transhumanism as an ideology and its criticism of the World Economic Forum as the most prominent embodiment of that ideology. And there are actually a number, you know, of course, Cardinal Vigano. Yes, he has very outspoken about this, but I bet you would.

Brannon Howse: Have a hard time. I bet you'd have a hard time finding 100 of what we call evangelical Protestant pastors that are even talking about it or even know what transhumanism is or technocracy is.

Joe Allen: I think the real problem that I see is those who are talking about it. As much as I appreciate them bringing awareness to it. They descend into a sort of sci-fi fantasy of it that I personally think is gripping to the imagination but is not necessarily useful to the conversation going forward. And that's a real problem. You know, again, I really appreciate these guys for doing what they're doing, but, you know, if the conversation descends into the fact that, you know, there's this idea that we are now entering the new days of Noah and you know that we need to reenact the genocide of the flood to wipe out the genetic mutants that are being created. And I don't Nephilim came in.

Brannon Howse: I don't buy into it.

Joe Allen: Any of that. It becomes a real problem.

Brannon Howse: I agree 100%. I do not buy into the Nephilim thing that many of them are pushing and that that's going to happen again. I don't buy into it whatsoever. I think you're 100% correct. It's not helpful. It is a distraction. It's sensationalism. It sells books and conference tickets. But it's I don't think I think for theological reasons I see in the scripture is not happening, particularly the epistles talking about those that did it were bound in everlasting chains, those demons. So I don't think it's going on, but I know exactly the group you're talking about. I could name some of the authors by name. And you're absolutely right. That's why we stick with interviewing people like Patrick Wood, who we just had on, or yourself because I think these are vital issues for people to talk about. And I'm particularly referring to Protestant Christians and pastors. You're right. But they got to stay away from that because that is. Yeah, I agree with you. It's a huge distraction. Give your website before I have to sign off and give it over to Silk.

Joe Allen: Uh, come over anytime to warroom.org. Of course. You catch me in the warroom.org. Also on Real America's Voice. Joe Bot is my personal site and at Joe Bot x, y, z, my social media slave chain. Thank you very much, Brandon.

Brannon Howse: Thank you, Joe. Joe Allen checking in. Check out his site. We'll get him back on. Always interesting. All right. Thanks for watching. Till next time I'm Brannon House. Take care.

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