Understanding Obama's Fabian Socialism <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Worldview Matters with Brannon Howse and His Guest Dr. David Noebel
Listen To Brannon's Daily Radio Program at www.worldviewmattes.net
 
Copyrighted by Brannon Howse
 
 
[Opening]
 
Brannon Howse:         Welcome, my friends, to the program.  Glad you're with us.  Brannon Howse here.  It's Worldview Matters.  I hope you'll continue to check out our website, www.WorldviewMatters.net WorldviewMatters.net.  And of course, you can hear this program and many more at www.WorldviewRadio.com  
 
                                    Welcome, all of you listening on our land line stations, but of course, all of you also listening on podcast.  Again, we've added a fourth server just to deal with all of you who are listening online, and we're thankful for that.  So anyway, you can hear all our programs, Jan Markell, David Barton, and this program, many others, at WorldviewRadio.com.
 
                                    Joining me today is Dr. David Noebel, the president of Summit Ministries, to talk about, well, how the Fabian socialists are destroying <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />America from within.  Now you've heard of socialists, but how many of you know what a Fabian socialist is? 
 
                                    And would you be shocked to find out that Barack Obama is a Fabian socialist?  Would you be shocked to find out that there are many Republicans – yeah, Republicans – that are Fabian socialists?  Many Democrats, obviously.  Some of them are in the United States Congress, right there in the United States Congress, and they're deliberately destroying America.  They're Fabian socialists, and you're going to find out today what a Fabian socialist is all about, what their end game is, and when they started.
 
                                    Dr. David Noebel has a brand new article that's up on our website at WorldviewTimes.com, "How the Socialists Are Destroying America From Within." "How the Socialists Are Destroying America From Within." His website's Summit.org, Summit.org.  I hope you'll check it out. 
 
[Summit plug]
 
Brannon Howse:         Dr. Noebel, welcome to the program.
 
David Noebel:             I'm glad to be back with you.
 
Brannon Howse:         Well, we're glad to have you back with us.  Let's talk about what is a Fabian socialist?
 
David Noebel:             How about a Marxist socialist?  The difference between the Marxist and the Fabian is somewhat of an important difference, but from Marx's point of view, socialism was going to be the answer to the capitalist economic system.  And what Marx did was divide basically the human race into two groups, the proletariat and the bourgeois.  And from a Marxist point of view, the bourgeois needed to be eliminated so that we could have peace on earth, and goodwill to all the socialists, I guess.
 
                                    But the Fabian socialists came along with a different idea.  They came along with the same socialist idea, but instead of dividing the world between the two groups, they decided that they were going to bring about socialism through a more peaceful process.  In other words, the Bolsheviks were known as the party of slaughter, and we had to ultimately get rid of the bourgeois.  And they did, by the way, Brannon.  They killed tens of thousands.  I think the numbers are probably closer to 100 and some million. 
 
                                    But the Fabians decided that they were not going to use the heavy hand.  They were going to go slowly and surely, and that's what they did. 
 
                                    The word Fabian comes from a Roman general by the name of Fabius who was – he was up against the Carthaginians and Hannibal, and he decided that he wasn't going to face them head on, but he was going to – he was going to go through them, and he was going to go above them, and he was going to go below them.  He was going to use a lot of different tactics to defeat them, so that's what he did.
 
                                    And so the Fabians were founded about 1883, and what I find interesting is that the Fabian Society was founded the very year that Marx himself died.  Marx died in March of 1883.  At his funeral, there were about six in attendance, and so I suspect that most people thought this was the end of Marx and Marxism and socialism and communism.  But the truth is, it was just the beginning, because Marxism took off, of course, into the 20th century big time.
 
                                    Also in 1883, the Fabian Society was founded in England, and this is the group that decided we were going to use a little different tactic than just the Bolshevik tactic.  So the Fabian socialists to a great extent had the same socialism in mind as the Marxists, but they had a little different approach on how they were going to do it.  A lot of us look upon what's going on even today as somehow, you know, well, it's just going on today, but what are the predecessors?  Well, I think as Christians, we need to get back and get the – and get the historical footing on this whole thing, too. 
 
                                    So Fabian socialism is a – is a term that comes from a British organization called the British Fabian Society, founded in 1883, and then it has progressed from that to the present time, and has had a tremendous success in England and in this country, and really around the world in many ways.  Basically, Europe today is becoming very socialistic in nearly every country in Europe.
 
                                    So they have done their homework.  ____ take your hats off to this group, because they started very small, but they just kept building and building and building.  And they have now reached the point where you could argue that even in our own country, the United States of America, the whole Fabian socialist approach has succeeded way beyond anyone's imagination today. 
 
Brannon Howse:         Well, and we – you've said so much good stuff there.  I was reading the other day, and I was – a description of Fabian socialists would be they desire socialism through evolution, not revolution.
 
David Noebel:             Right.
 
Brannon Howse:         You'd agree with that?
 
David Noebel:             That's one of the – that's one of the big differences that – you would argue that the Marxist socialism is revolutionistic, whereas the British Fabian, American variety, is evolutionistic.  In other words, you do a little here, a little there, but you constantly bring the economic process into your camp, and you bring it politically as quickly as you can, but you don't want to alert – you know, you don't want to alert the taxpayers too much, because the taxpayers are ultimately the ones who are going to be paying for it.
 
Brannon Howse:         And let's back up a little bit, for those who – of course, Obama is – would be a Fabian socialist, and we're going to get into that, as well as members of Congress.  But let's back up a little bit for history, again, because I think we moved on it so fast.  You were talking about the bourgeois and – go back and explain some of these terms, and where this was taking place.
 
David Noebel:             Marx and his followers from the Communist Manifesto in 1848 looked upon private property as the origin of evil itself.  So if we could literally abolish private property – which is really a fancy word for socialism, incidentally.  If someone said, what is socialism, a great definition of socialism is the abolition of private property, and the public and social takeover of private property.
 
                                    But those who possessed property were referred to as the bourgeois, or the bourgeoisie.  It's an economic term, but it means those who possess property.  The proletariat is another term that literally means those – the property-less class.  And the property-less class, of course, were supposed to be somehow the workers of the world.  The work – remember Marx in the Manifesto said that the workers of the world needed to unit.
 
                                    But – well, the definition of workers, from his point of view is – well, was he a worker of the world?  Karl Marx never, as far as I can remember, held a job, hardly.  He was on the – he was on the payroll of his sidekick, Engels, who in turn was receiving his money from his capitalistic father in England.  So in a sense, Marx himself was a leach on Engels.  Engels was a leach on his old man in London. 
 
                                    So this is the historical background, but somehow the bourgeois, those who possess property, were the villains of the world, and they needed to be destroyed.  And the history of Marxism, to a great extent, Brannon, is the destruction of that whole class.  And they did it in so many different ways.  If our – if our listeners are interested in this, there's a great book called Death by Government by Rummel, R-U-M-M-E-L, who was a historian – I guess he still is.  He's a historian at the University of Hawaii.
 
                                    And then, believe it or not, Harvard University Press put out a book on the – The Black Book on Communism, which shows the murderous side of the whole communist enterprise.  For Harvard University to do that I would say is probably one of the better things they've done in the last 25 years. 
 
                                    But this is the background.  These are the terms.  These are the keywords that all Christians need to grasp.  And this is one reason why we need to get our young people involved in understanding these things, because this is the generation that's going to be approaching some of this material today, because even though Marx died in 1883, his ideas still live big time.  And unfortunately, they continue to live in many of our institutions of higher education as well. 
 
[Summit Plug]
 
Brannon Howse:         Doc, so this – while the Fabian Society was formed in 1883 in England, in London, this whole battle between the landowners and the non-landowners, this was taking place in Russia.  Correct?
 
David Noebel:             Well, it took place primarily in the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia in 1917 and following.  That's right.  And then it branched out, you know, over the whole 20th century, into how many – how many various countries, you know, that came under the domain of the – of the Bolsheviks and the communists in Russia.
 
                                    And in fact, Lenin himself was the one that picked up some of the ideas of Marx, so that we now have a worldview called Marxism/Leninism.  And that is the – that is the power, by the way, that nearly ruled the world at one time.  You know, it wasn't until Reagan came on the scene and decided that the evil empire was an evil empire, and we weren't going to allow it to continue to just swoop up nation after nation after nation.
 
                                    So this is some history that we should be aware of, because it wasn't that long ago, you know, that some of these things occurred.  And the Berlin Wall came down, and a lot of people even then were misled, because they think, if the Berlin Wall came down, then Marxism and communism is dead.  And that's another key thing that we need to keep in mind.
 
                                    And by the way, I'm – I'm just looking at today's paper.  This is March 17th, the Gazette, and the headline here is, "El Salvador Chooses Leftist as President." And then the story goes on, and by the way, leftism is just a fancy word for communism today, to some extent.
 
Brannon Howse:         Absolutely. 
 
David Noebel:             But El Salvador has just gone red, and they're going to be following after Chavez and Castro and some of the other Latin American countries that aren't just Fabian.  This is interesting to me.  They're not just the Fabian variety.  They're the Marxist variety.  So everyone needs to keep their eye on what's happening down there as well.
 
Brannon Howse:         And again, defining our terms here, a Fabian – a Fabian socialist would want an evolution of socialism, not a revolution.  So they would do it over time, without guns and bullets.
 
David Noebel:             Right.
 
Brannon Howse:         Whereas a Marxist will use the guns and bullets.
 
David Noebel:             Right.
 
Brannon Howse:         All right. 
 
David Noebel:             That's the big difference between Marxist socialism and Fabian socialists.
 
Brannon Howse:         And Obama is a Fabian socialist.  Tony Blair is a Fabian socialist, isn't he?
 
David Noebel:             These are – these are the varieties of socialism.  That's true.
 
Brannon Howse:         I mean, the Labour Party in Great Britain was –
 
David Noebel:             That's a Fabian – the Labour Party – well, that's interesting, too, that you bring that up.  The Labour Party of England was founded by the socialists, and the Liberal Party of England at one time was heavily involved by the – by the Fabians as well.  But for some reason, the Fabians in the Labour Party and the Fabians in the Liberal Party of England sort of had a fall out, and I'm not quite sure even right now what – if anyone can explain what that fall out is.  They should have just united.  They'd have had a bigger party.
 
                                    But of course, the Labour Party took over the country. 
 
Brannon Howse:         But Tony Blair, being a part of the Labour Party, was heavily involved in Fabian socialism at one time –
 
David Noebel:             Right.
 
Brannon Howse:         – and still is.
 
David Noebel:             Oh, the present – the present head of the Labour Party in England is a Fabian socialist.  That's right.  In fact, he was just in this country.
 
Brannon Howse:         And that would be Gordon Brown?
 
David Noebel:             That's Gordon Brown.
 
Brannon Howse:         Gordon Brown, who was just here.  And so when you see Gordon Brown – okay, folks, hope you're paying attention, because we're getting ready to connect some dots.  When you see Gordon Brown running around, as he has done, talking about the need for a, quote, "new world order," his words, not ours, giving speeches – go put it into a search engine.  You'll find it.
 
                                    Running around – we've played the video clips or the sound bites on this program before.  Running around, calling for a new world order.  And when you have Tony Blair, former Prime Minister of Great Britain, part of the Labour Party, who's a Fabian socialist, running around talking about the need for a one world religion to unite us all together, with his pagan spirituality he's out running around promoting, you understand their end game, because the end game of a Fabian socialist is a one world government, is it not, Dr. Noebel?
 
David Noebel:             It's a one world state, and primarily through the United Nations, which we have argued for a long time, and a one world religion, of course, is also behind some of their agendas, too.  But they're not as obvious there, because, you know, they've got to be somewhat more careful there.  These guys, the Fabian socialist variety, are – are not as obvious as the Marxist variety.  So that's what you want to keep in mind when you distinguish between the two. 
 
                                    But now it's obvious, even in Latin America right now, the Marxist variety is coming to the fore again.  So I don't know.  They probably decided that they can be more bold.  Chavez doesn't have to wink and say that he's a socialist now.  He can actually say, "I'm a Bolshevik.  I'm a communist.  I'm a socialist." But this is what we're going to be up against in the next – for the next generation, that's for sure.
 
Brannon Howse:         All right.  We'll take a break, come back.  We're going to name some names of members in the United States House of Representatives and the US Senate who are, well, Fabian socialists.  We'll talk more about Barack Obama, his end game as a Fabian socialist.  And I'll tell you a little bit about Karl Marx and what a loser he was.  Folks, do you realize what a loser, an absolute loser?  I mean, if he was alive today, he'd have a big L on his forehead for being a big loser, and yet people follow him.
 
                                    You know, he was such a success in life.  No, he wasn't.  You'll find out just what a piece of human garbage Karl Marx turned out to be and what he did to his poor family.  The guy should have been in prison for homicide, and you'll find out why when we come back from the break.  Just understanding how evil communism is, and of course, socialism is the economic philosophy of Karl Marx – or I mean of communism, and of course, Karl Marx.
 
                                    So we'll talk about all that with my guest, Dr. David Noebel, of Summit.org.  He's the author of Understanding the Times, Clergy in the Classroom, and many more.  You can find that all at Summit.org.
 
                                    I'm Brannon Howse.  It's Worldview Matters.  We'll be right break.
 
[Commercial]
 
Brannon Howse:         Welcome back, my friends, to the program.  Glad you're with us.  Brannon Howse here.  My guest is Dr. David Noebel.  We're talking about Fabian socialists.  Now I know you probably have heard of a socialist before.  They don't want you to have private property.  They want to end private property, centralize government.  You know, redistribution of wealth. 
 
                                    But many of you have never heard of a Fabian socialist, or if you've heard the term, you don't know what it means.  It is someone who desires to bring about socialism and bring it about through an evolution, through change, through quiet evolution, not a revolution.  And Barack Obama and many people on the world scene today, Tony Blair, former Prime Minister of Great Britain, Gordon Brown, current Prime Minister of Great Britain, they are Fabian socialists.
 
 
Brannon Howse:         Dr. Noebel, before we went to the break, I said I was going to share a little bit about what a loser Karl Marx was.  Karl Marx, well, he was just, as you said earlier, lived off one of his friends, who lived of one of his capitalist fathers, but Karl Marx, he had some children, and he – three of his six children died of starvation in infancy because he wouldn't go out and get a job.  He never bothered to accept a job to support his family, and three of his six children died of starvation in infancy.
 
                                    Two others committed suicide.  Only one lived to maturity.  And when a gift of 160 pounds, about $500.00, which was a lot of money then, arrived from a rich uncle in Germany, Marx used the money for a two-month drinking spree with his continental intellectuals.  His wife was left penniless in London, was evicted from their apartment with the infant son.  And as you said earlier, Marx died, and his funeral was attended by a whopping six people.
 
                                    This is the loser that these guys all admire.  Right, Doc? 
 
David Noebel:             You summarized it pretty well.  As far as a family man, you wouldn't say that he was the epitome of a normal family.  Just his whole demeanor on hate was something that needs to be emphasized over and over again.  He always referred to anyone that he disagreed with in a very mean approach, and he used terms, Brannon, that I don't even know if we want to put on the air.
 
                                    And everyone that had anything to do with him didn't want to stay close to him for any length of time, because they'd always turn out to be one of his enemies.  If you didn't agree with Karl on everything, you were on your way out.  So that's a whole different aspect of his life.
                                   
                                    But his family life was just terrible, terrible, terrible.  And his writings, of course, look what his writings did.  They brought on the destruction of the bourgeois.  A lot of people tried to say, "Well, it's Lenin.  Lenin is the one who caused all this damage, and Marx himself was just an innocent bystander.  He never called for the destruction of the bourgeois."
 
                                    That is not true.  He called for the destruction of the bourgeois, and that whole private property class.  So he is in bed with Lenin on this whole slaughter of the 20th century.  And most people don't realize this, but the 20th century, which is supposed to be such an enlightened century, caused the death of more human beings than all previous centuries combined.  And I don't know why we can't admit that, but we can't.
 
                                    And my argument is we don't do that even in our own school systems because many of the ideas that brought us the destruction of the 20th century, which ended up in fascism, Nazism, and communism, are still being taught as viable ideas today in our own public schools.
 
Brannon Howse:         And of course, we know that some other people being followed, like Karl Marx, and then you add to it Friedrich Nietzsche, who said, "God is dead," one of the fathers of postmodern thought.  He spent the last 11 years of his life in an insane asylum.  And then you take people like Charles Darwin, Charles Darwin actually said that if his ideas were followed to the end, there would be the great violence.
 
                                    I mean, these guys knew what their worldview – many of them knew what their worldview would bring about if it was followed to the T.  And in your new article, "How the Socialists are Destroying America From Within," which is available at WorldviewTimes.com, you quote Fyodor – and help me say his last –
 
David Noebel:             Dostoevsky.  Yes. 
 
Brannon Howse:         Say his last name for our audience again.
 
David Noebel:             Well, he was one of the great writers, of course, and Dostoevsky really understood what communism and socialism were all about.  And he's the one who said that the future kingdom of socialism will be a terrible tyranny of criminals and murderers, and it will throw humanity into a true hell of spiritual suffering and poverty.  That was Dostoevsky's approach to what socialism itself would bring about, and I think he was right on target.
 
                                    In fact, the whole 20th century is proof that what he had to say was absolutely correct. 
 
Brannon Howse:         Talk to us about some of the folks inside the United States Congress that are in favor of this – who are Fabian socialists?  Who would some of them be?  Would – do you know any names, have any names?
 
David Noebel:             Well, I have names.  In fact, in my article that you say has been posted already – I haven't seen it yet, but I'm taking your word for it –
 
Brannon Howse:         It's there.  It went out to a email list of 125,000 last night.
 
David Noebel:             Did it really?  No.  The truth is, Brannon, than I have traced a direct link from the Fabian socialists right to our present day House of Representatives.  And by the way, the House of Representatives is the key to the socialization of America, and I hope that all of our listeners are listening rather carefully here, because what I'm about to give you is in the article itself.
 
                                    But there are four progressive, radical, socialistic what we would call organizations or caucuses in the United States House of Representatives.  They are, and I will give these in order, and then I'll come back on them and tell you who – how many members they have, just to show you what we're talking about here. 
 
                                    The Progressive Democrats of America, the Congressional Progressive Caucus, the Congressional Black Caucus, and the Democratic Socialists of America.  These are all organizations that your listeners right now can go to their computer, go to Google, and type in each one of them, and they will find exactly what we're talking about.  Okay? 
 
                                    The Progressive Democrats of America claim six House members in their membership.  The Congressional Progressive Caucus claims 74 House members, and on Google, I looked at Google yesterday, because you told me we were going to be on.  I looked yesterday to find that now they have 74 House members, and they're claiming that by the time everything is said and done, they'll probably end up with 80 House members.
 
                                    And the Congressional Black Caucus says that they have 43 House Members.  The Democratic Socialists of America do not identify their House members, because they consider all members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus to be part of their membership as well.  But here's the kicker there.  The Democratic Socialists of America has a very prominent national member who is the AFL-CIO president, John J. Sweeney.
 
                                    And my argument is that he has more influence in the whole House of Representatives.  So we're talking about over 100 members of our present-day House of Representatives that are into the whole socialistic movement in this country. 
 
                                    What the Wikipedia points out – Wikipedia has an article on the Congressional Progressive Caucus, and here's what they say.  It represents about a third of the House Democratic Caucus, and that 11 of the 20 standing committees of the House of Representatives are chaired by members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. 
 
                                    Now I don't know if you want to go into this, but I have their names and I have their –
 
Brannon Howse:         Yeah.  Let's do it.
 
David Noebel:             – committees.  You want to do that?
 
Brannon Howse:         Yeah.  Let's do it.
 
David Noebel:             Okay.  The 11 chairs of the House of Representatives today are the following.  George Miller, a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, represents California Ninth District.  He is Chairman of the House Education and Labor Committee. 
 
                                    Henry Waxman is Chairman of the Committee on Energy and Commerce.  Barney Frank is Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee.  And by the way, we could spend the rest of the program on Barney Frank, because with what's presently going on in the subprime mortgage scandal.
 
                                    John Conyers, Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee.  Bennie Thompson, Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee.  We're talking some of the most important committees in the whole House of Representatives, they're all under socialistic jurisdiction as we speak, Brannon.
 
                                    Nydia Velazquez is Chairwoman of the House Small Business Committee.  Charles Rangel, who is by the way under investigation today by the House Ethics Committee, is Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, which is probably the most important committee in the whole House of Representatives.
 
                                    Louise Slaughter is Chairwoman of the House Rules Committee.  Bob Brady is Chairman of the House Administration Committee, and Edward Markey is Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming. 
 
                                    By the way, global warming is just a fraud to bring the United States of America together with Europe and all the rest of the world under a world dictatorship, because the argument for world government is going to center around the point that there is a world problem.  It's called global warming, and human beings are responsible for it.  Not the sun.  Not the sun.  We can't mention the sun in this whole discussion.  Human beings are responsible for the whole global warming scandal, and Al Gore says in 100 years we're going to increase the heat on this planet by one degree centigrade.
 
                                    Now that is supposed to be the lead part of why we need world government, and who's behind it?  This whole crowd, including Markey himself, who is the Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming. 
 
                                    So those are the committees, the key committees in the House of Representatives, that are under the jurisdiction, for all intents and purposes, of the Fabian socialists.  So everything that is going to be coming out of the House of Representatives, including all the budget items and so forth, they're all going to be slanted for one thing.  They're geared to bring the United States of America into a socialistic type of economic system.
 
Brannon Howse:         Wowee.  And again, why do you not hear major talk show hosts talking and writing about this, explaining this to the American people?  I mean, this – these people should be tried for treason, in my opinion. 
 
David Noebel:             This material should be on every newscast in this country, and let me tell you why.  If what I just went through with this committees, were chaired by members of the John Birch Society, and I think some of your listeners remember that organization, if they were part and parcel of the John Birch Society, every major news organization, every time it mentioned one of these members, would say, "Chairman of the House Committee on this and that, and so forth, but remember, he's a member of the John Birch – "
 
                                    They would always bring up, because at one time, many years ago, way before your time, in fact, Brannon, I think we had one or two members in the House that were members of the John Birch Society, and every time their name was mentioned, it always mentioned the fact that they were members of this extreme right-wing group, the John Birch Society.
 
                                    Well, here you have all these members that are part of the most left-wing socialistic cabal, and no one breathes a word.  This has to be the epitome of negligence on the part of our so-called media, which I also believe is also part of the whole cabal itself.
 
Brannon Howse:         Without a doubt.  Without a doubt.  You're listening to Worldview Matters.  I'm Brannon Howse.  My guest is Dr. Noebel of Summit Ministry, Summit.org.  Folks, if this doesn't light your fire, your wood's wet. 
 
[Summit plug]
 
Brannon Howse:         Now when we come back from the break, I'm going to continue talking to Dr. Noebel, and I want to talk to him about an economic philosophy, an economic philosophy that most people today are.  They hold this worldview of economics, and we're going to use some terms that I don't know if we've ever used on this program, and if we have, we never stopped to define them.  But it's crucial you understand these terms, and which economic philosophy you fit into, because, my friends, this is what is taking America down.
 
                                    And most people don't understand it, and sadly, most of our national talk show hosts will not get into what we're talking about.  I asked someone once recently why, and they thought it's because they believe, the talk show hosts believe, many of them believe it's too deep, that their audience can't handle it.
 
                                    You know what I find?  The exact opposite is true.  These folks out there in the great heartland of America, they get it.  They want more information, and it's a shame we're not providing it to them on all talk shows that want to fight this worldview.  But that's what we do here.  We break it down, we bring it to you, because I know you guys are some of the smartest folks in America, and you want this kind of information.
 
                                    I'm Brannon Howse.  This is Worldview Matters.  We'll be right back.
 
[Commercial]
 
Brannon Howse:         Welcome back, my friends, to the program.  Brannon Howse here.  It's Worldview Matters.  I hope you're checking out our website.  My guest today is Dr. Noebel of Summit.org.  Summit.org. 
 
                                    You notice how much I say is website address?  Because I believe in what he's doing.  Dr. Noebel is the one that helped me get going, and encouraged me to start Worldview Weekend.  So if you don't like me, my friends, and I know there are some of you who monitor the show, you can blame Dr. Noebel, because he's the one that got me going.
 
                                    Dr. Noebel, let's talk about the various economic philosophies running around in America today.  I consider myself an Austrian when it comes to economics.  I'll let you define that.  But the alternative which most people are today, even many Republicans, are following the economic philosophy of John Maynard Keynes.  Explain that.
 
David Noebel:             Well, okay.  Let's go back a second here.  Remember, now, the Fabian Society was founded in 1883, in London.  And over those early years, they had many members, including Bertrand Russell, by the way, who at one time was the number one philosopher in the world, the number one atheist in the world. 
 
                                    You don't hear too much about the number one atheist today, who's changed his mind, because Anthony Flew is no longer the world's number one atheist.  That's sort of taken the place – he's sort of been replaced by Richard Dawkins.  I think Christopher Hitchens think he's there, too.
 
                                    But Anthony Flew is no longer an atheist, and everyone needs to take a look and see what brought him out of his atheism in his book There is a God. 
 
                                    But Bertrand Russell was an atheist.  He was a hardcore member of the British Fabian Society.  But they also had another member, Brannon, and this guy is the key guy that affects every American today.  He affects Americans morally, politically, and economically, and his name was John Maynard Keynes, K-E-Y-N-E-S.  John Maynard Keynes. 
 
                                    John Maynard Keynes was educated at Cambridge University in England, and he was a member of a secret organization there called the Apostles.  And if all – and if any of our listeners are interested in this, all they do is go to Google and type in "the Apostles at Cambridge University," and they will have a pretty good background on what this group was.
 
                                    But for our listeners today, I want to just mention a book called Keynes at Harvard, K-E-Y-N-E-S, At Harvard.  If they'll just go to – type that in, they can literally pick up the book on the – on the website, and they can download it there.  And it is priceless, Brannon.  I cannot mention this book too much.  Keynes at Harvard was put together by a group of Harvard University professors who were worried that Harvard University was going left big time.
 
                                    Well, obviously, now we know that it has.   And one of its key graduates is now the President of the United States.  Keynes at Harvard.  I just want to read this.  I don't know if we have – how much time do we have?
 
Brannon Howse:         Oh, we've got about 20 – 15, 20 minutes.
 
David Noebel:             Okay.  Let – I just want to read this one section here, because this summarizes John Maynard Keynes – we could go into detail on each one of these points, but let's just get the overall flavor of this guy, and then realize that when Larry Summers who his key guy was in going to straight out our economic situation, he's the one that mentioned John Maynard Keynes as being his key guy, remember?
 
                                    Okay.  This is from the book Keynes at Harvard, and I'm just going to read this one area here.  Edited by Zygmund Dobbs, D-O-B-B-S.  "Singing the red flag.  Singing the red flag, the highborn sons of the British upper class lay on carpeted floor, spinning out socialist schemes in homosexual intermissions." Well, that's interesting, because the Apostles, which was the secret organization at Cambridge, was basically a homosexual organization. 
 
                                    "The attitude in such gatherings was anti-establishmentarian.  To them, the older generation was horribly out of date, even superfluous.  The capitalist system was declared obsolete.  Revolution was proclaimed as the only solution."
 
                                    Now remember, earlier we said that evolution was their key word and not revolution, but at the earlier ____ of the Fabian socialists, revolution was still part of their scheme, and they were trying to figure out how to bring it about, until some of the more sensible ones said, "Well, let's not go revolution.  Let's go evolution."
 
                                    "Christianity was pronounced as an enemy force, and the worst sort of depravities were eulogized, as that love which passes all Christian understanding.  Chief of this ring of homosexual revolutionaries was John Maynard Keynes.  Keynes was characterized by his male sweetheart as a liberal, a sodomite, an atheist, and a statistician.  His particular depravity was the sexual abuse of little boys."
 
                                    That is the – that is the character of John Maynard Keynes, who today is looked upon as the savior of the capitalistic system.  This has to be one of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated upon any nation, including the United States.  John Maynard Keynes went contrary to all solid economic – what you would call economic doctrine.  You don't – you don't spend your way out of debt by going further into debt.  When you dig a hole, you stop digging.  You don't go further down.
 
                                    ___ a good area to contrast what the Christian position or the Christian worldview is in economics as well.  But today, Keynesianism is called interventionism.  Interventionism is where the government itself gets involved in the economic sphere, and passes laws that screw up what we would call sound, basic economics.
 
                                    And what we had with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and the whole deal of going now into debt by trillions is nothing more or nothing less than Fabian, Keynesian economic philosophy.  So this is what every Christian needs to get a handle on, Brannon, or we are finished as a nation.
 
Brannon Howse:         Wow.  You know, it – I can hardly – can hardly speak after what you just shared.  Isn't it interesting, whether it's the Brownshirts, Hitler's Brownshirts, or the followers of Keynes here, so many of them are homosexuals, which makes me wonder how much of this is demonic.
 
David Noebel:             Well, demonic or not, homosexuals were part of the whole Hitler broad band.  That's right.  A lot of people think that Hitler was anti-homosexual.  Hitler wasn't so much anti-homosexual as he was – he didn't want his generals to be molesting 12 year old boys.
 
                                    Well, here's John Maynard Keynes, and he spent a lot of his life going after little boys, and giving them over to some of his homosexual friends to molest as well.  This guy should have been in jail a long time before he contacted his economic scheme on how to bring down capitalism. 
 
                                    But right now, we're in the throes of Keynesian economics and interventionism, where the federal government is passing laws that are going to put us deeper and deeper and deeper into the hole, and it's going to end up with an inflation that no one here can fully grasp.  And we need to keep in mind how John Maynard Keynes said that governments' use of inflation is their secret weapon to destroy the wealth of their citizens. 
 
Brannon Howse:         Yeah.
 
David Noebel:             All of this is coming to pass, even as we speak today.  This is what's amazing to me.  And yet this book was written, Keynes at Harvard was written in 1964.  They called the shots back there.  These were Harvard University professors that called these shots, and everything they said in that book is coming to pass today.  So I would say Keynes at Harvard, edited by Zygmund Dobbs, should be on a – on a reading list of every one of our Christian listeners today.
 
Brannon Howse:         In fact, let me read you what Keynes said.  It was Keynes himself who – you write in your article, who admitted that by a, quote, "Continuous – a continuous process of inflation, governments can confiscate secretly and unobserved an important part of the wealth of their citizens.  By this method, they not only confiscate, but confiscate arbitrarily.  And while the process impoverishes many, it will actually enrich some.  The process encourages all of the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner that is not – in a manner that not one man in a million can diagnose," end quote.
 
                                    So this is the way they bring about their socialism.
 
David Noebel:             Right.
 
Brannon Howse:         Kind of like the Cloward-Piven strategy we talked about last week, which is –
 
David Noebel:             Right.
 
Brannon Howse:         – to pile on so much welfare the economy collapses.  Another way is inflate the currency, steal people's wealth –
 
David Noebel:             Right.
 
Brannon Howse:         – and then we implement socialism.  So again, this is all being done on purpose.
 
David Noebel:             The other key point here, your audience needs to remember ACORN.  ACORN plays a very strategic part, because the socialists in Congress are going to do the best they can to feed ACORN, which is a socialist organization, and the President of the United States at one time was the lead lawyer for ACORN in Chicago, Illinois. 
 
                                    The Congress, the socialists in Congress, will do everything in their power to feed ACORN as much federal money as they can.  The last time I looked, ACORN could actually get nearly $1 billion, $1 billion, B, with a B, dollars.  Well, what does ACORN do with it?  They organize – they organize at the grassroots level future Democratic voters.  That's what their whole organization is geared to do, so that they will get more people to vote the Democratic Party, so the Democratic socialists in the United States government are continuing to stay in power.
 
                                    And they will continue to grow their power, as I said.  They're nearly up to 80 members right now in the House of Representatives, or the Congressional Progressive Caucus.  So these guys have worked this thing out to a T.  Freddie and Fannie are involved in this thing up to their eyebrows.  Barney Frank is involved with this up to his eyebrows.
 
                                    And by the way, the only socialist in the Senate right now that claims to be a socialist is Bernie Sanders from Vermont, but you can bet that all of his friends that are involved in passing all of this debt type of budget is – would be part of that, if they had the guts to come out and say they were.
 
Brannon Howse:         All right.  Let's take a quick break, come back from the break.  Let's ask what the alternative to Keynesian economics is, called being an Austrian, believing in Austrian economics.  Let's talk about what that means with my guest Dr. Noebel of Summit Ministries, Summit.org.  Summit.org.  I'm Brannon Howse.  It's Worldview Matters.  We'll be right back.
 
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Brannon Howse:         Welcome back, my friends, to the program.  It's Worldview Matters.  My guest is Dr. Noebel.  Is this a barn burner, or what?  Are you guys starting to understand the economic worldview that's destroying America?  And it is a economic worldview, and that's why I urge you to check out Summit.org. 
 
David Noebel:             And by the way, Brannon, before I forget, if any of your – if any of your listeners think that we're way off base, I direct them to the latest issue of National Review, March 23rd, 2009, page 22 and following, with a tremendously important article by Mike – by Mark Stein.  And it's entitled "Prime Minister Obama: Will Europe's Statism Supplant the American Way?"
 
                                    Nearly everything that we're talking about today, even though he doesn't mention the key players that we've mentioned, nearly everything that we're talking about today is in Mark Stein's article.  So if you want reinforcement, apart from – you know, I'm just from Manitou Springs, Colorado.  If your listeners want something hard core, then they need to go to National Review and pick it up there.
 
                                    But this is a worldview issue, and this is why Worldview Matters, because in the area of economics, the Christian worldview on economics is all found in the Bible.  And if anyone wants to know what the Christian worldview is, they simply go to the Book of Proverbs and start reading it, and they will come across 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 verses on economics.  And this is what I could call great biblical economics, because the Christian worldview basically endorses the things that would keep us out of debt, and that would not lead us into what they would call a socialistic paradise, which Dostoevsky says is a socialistic hell.
 
                                    But from a Christian point of view, and the Christian worldview in economics endorses sound money.  By the way, that's based on Proverbs, where God says he hates a dishonest scale, because our money today, Brannon, and this is another subject, as you well know, has no backing whatsoever.  We have a gold standard in everything except our money today.  Isn't that amazing?
                                   
                                    We have a gold standard for automobiles.  We have a gold standard for the family – we used to have a gold standard for the family, it used to be father, mother, and child.  Now we're not even sure about that.  Nearly all the absolutes that we've had in this country we've sort of kicked around, because our relativism tells us that we can't have any absolutes, and I contend that the professors who say that have absolutes themselves.  They just won't admit it.
 
                                    But from a Christian worldview, we endorse sound money.  We endorse fiscal responsibility.  We endorse saving for a rainy day.  And by the way, savings was a big issue for John Maynard Keynes.  He hated the concept of savings, because he wanted debt.  He wanted extravagant consumption.  He didn't want to prepare for the future, because he himself was really anti-family, because he thought homosexuality was superior to heterosexuality.
 
                                    But Christians believe in saving for a rainy day, deferred gratification, paying off one's monthly credit bill – credit card bills, if they even have a credit card, living within one's means.  These are all biblical, Christian concepts in economics, and these are all the things that are up for grabs today. 
 
                                    And that's why Keynesianism or interventionism or socialism is contrary to nearly every aspect of the Christian worldview in economics.  But of course, we already know that it's also contrary to just about all the other areas of a Christian worldview, too.
 
Brannon Howse:         All right.  Now some would say, then, they're not Keynesian.  They follow an Austrian economic system.  What does that mean?
 
David Noebel:             Well, Austrian economics was just basically classical economics.  I mean, come on.  For 6,000 years, the economics of the world was basically money, sound money.  You've got to have something that you can judge by, and even though over the history of the world for the last 6,000 years we've tried various things, they always ended up with gold and silver as being the standard of money.
 
                                    And you could judge it.  The dollar itself comes from the word thaler, which was a measurement of what an ounce of silver would entail, or a percentage of a gold piece would entail.  So we always – in fact, the US Constitution identifies money as gold and silver. 
 
                                    So Austrian economics is just a fancy name for classical economics, which is just a fancy name for, look, we've had 6,000 years of history in economics, and we've all decided that debt is not a good thing.  Much better to save than to go into debt.  Always much better to pay your bills.  Always much better to put aside some money for a rainy day, because there are going to be ups and downs.
 
                                    By the way, that was the story of Joseph, remember, in the Bible.  There were seven years of plenty and seven years of famine.  So there – you always want to prepare for that.  And I contend that today Christians should prepare right now for a rainy day.  I don't think that's anti-biblical.  I think that is biblical, because as people of faith and as fathers of our own households, we're responsible for protecting our own families.
 
                                    So this is all part of the mix of what I would call a Christian worldview.  Some call it Austrian economics, but it's really classical economics, just good, solid economics. 
 
Brannon Howse:         The website is Summit.org.  Summit.org.  We're going to have to get Dr. Noebel back on.  I wish he'd get passionate about this, don't you, my friends?
 
                                    Dr. Noebel, thanks for being with us.
 
David Noebel:             You bet, Brannon.  Thanks for the opportunity, and I hope that some of our listeners are going to get informed in all this material.
 
Brannon Howse:         I hope so as well.  My friends, till tomorrow, I'm Brannon Howse.  Take care.
 
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Copyrighted by Brannon Howse